Saturday, April 01, 2006

Social world: Sujiatun, China

Some of you may be wondering why my blog have started to highlight social issues over the days rather than "psychology" as the title suggests. However, i find social issues hard to separate from psychology, and reckon that its important to pay attention to our world, so that we better understand the people who represent it.

My tag line invites you to join me as i "meet all kinds of people" and experience all kinds of people in my years in psych school. Though this "meetings" are not always real, the internet is a wonderful place to "meet" interesting people. One such person i came to "meet" is Dr. Shizhong
Chen, the President of the Conscience Foundation.

What a lovely name! 'conscience foundation', i thought to myself. But, then.. the name Sujitun did not mean any thing to me.
By Shizhong Chen Please remember the name: Sujiatun. It will one day be as infamous as Auschwitz and Dachau.

On March 8, 2006, a Chinese journalist on the run from the Chinese communist regime disclosed to Falun Gong practitioners in the United States some appalling news: a secret death camp in Sujiatun, Shenyang City, Liaoning Province in China.

According to this journalist, over 6,000 Falun Gong practitioners have been taken to Sujiatun. "I believe that once they are in they 100% cannot come back out," the journalist said. He also disclosed that there are incineration chambers and a large number of doctors there. "Why are there incineration chambers there? Why are there so many doctors inside? Certainly not for the benevolent treatment of prisoners. Something you simply cannot imagine..."

"The prisoners, the Communist Party definitely will not let them just waste food there. Why are they there then? ... They will all be murdered, and all their organs will be harvested and distributed to hospitals. The sale of human organs is a vastly profitable trade in China."

Falun Gong practitioners are not the only victims of such crimes. One week after the journalist's disclosure, a former nurse whose ex-husband had taken part in harvesting organs from Falun Gong practitioners also stepped forward to testify: "I used to work at the Liaoning Thrombus Treatment Center, which was next to the concentration camp. My ex-husband had taken part in removing corneas from Falun Gong practitioners. This brought disaster to my family."

"In early 2001, my husband was assigned by the hospital to secretly remove corneas from Falun Gong practitioners. He hid this from me at the beginning, but slowly I sensed he was in great agony, had nightmares often, and was always stressed. After my repeated inquiries, he told me the truth in 2003."

"He knew they were Falun Gong practitioners. Every doctor who took part knew. They were told that eliminating Falun Gong was not a crime, but helping the Communist Party to do 'cleansing.' Those who were taken in on the operating tables were anesthetized. Elderly people or children were mostly used for harvesting corneas."

"At the time when my ex-husband told me about this, he could no longer bear the torment of doing such evil things, and decided to leave China to escape the horror. He said to me: you cannot possibly know my despair, because those Falun Gong practitioners were still alive. It was different from removing organs from dead people - they were alive."

"Because of this, I divorced him. I said to him: you are done with your career; you will not be able to hold a scalpel in the future."

"I know there are still Falun Gong practitioners in that hospital," this nurse said in the end. "I hope this crime can be exposed to the international society as quickly as possible, so their lives can be saved. I also hope, through my disclosure, to atone my relative's crime."

The victims are not even limited to Chinese. It is an open secret that China has become the world capital of organ transplantation, and ships human organs to nearby countries such as Thailand. Tens of thousands from different parts of the world have received organ transplants in China and Thailand, being assured that the organs have been legally obtained. How will they and their surgeons feel when they learn about the barbaric organ harvesting, even if the organs harvested from Falun Gong practitioners turn out to account for a portion of all human organs used in transplant operations? Is there a way for them to remove the doubt? Will they want to find out? Or will they bear that doubt and forever avoid mentioning "transplanted in China"?

Another doctor recently stated that extracting organs from living prisoners is common across China. How many more camps like Sujiatun exist? It was precisely because we abhor such appalling crimes that humanity vowed "Never again!" after the shock of the Holocaust. Yet, as this vow is still ringing in the ears of Holocaust survivors, we are in for another shock - or are we? How do we explain to ourselves and our children that we have watched the systematic eradication of Falun Gong for more than six years and allowed it to escalate to the emergence of human organ harvesting factories like Sujiatun?

It is not due to a lack of information. Ever since July 1999, Falun Gong practitioners in China have been taking great risks to collect and send abroad, on a daily basis, detailed information on the extensive and severe human rights violations committed by the Chinese communist regime.

Falun Gong practitioners overseas have worked their hardest to disseminate this information to governments, media, opinion leaders, the United Nations, and the general public to appeal for their attention.

United Nation's Reports It is not because the information is unsubstantiated. In the past few years, many Special Rapporteurs of the United Nations Human Rights Commission have cited in their annual reports numerous cases of torture and killing of Falun Gong practitioners by the Chinese regime.

Special Rapporteur Asma Jahangir wrote in her 2003 report: "The cruelty and brutality of these alleged acts of torture defy description." On October 15, 2004, seven Special Rapporteurs sent a joint letter to China to express their concern about the persecution of Falun Gong. These Special Rapporteurs are the most-respected authorities on human rights. Their findings and opinions on the Chinese regime's persecution of Falun Gong have been reprinted to thousands upon thousands of copies and submitted to world governments and media.

History, unfortunately, repeats itself. Just as the Holocaust information provided by Jewish groups was cast aside or downplayed because of the "unsubstantiated nature of the information" and its "prejudiced sources," information from Falun Gong practitioners has received the same fate. History has also shown that all major atrocities occurred when there was not enough media exposure, when perilous signals were ignored because they were "incomplete" or "unsubstantiated" or from "prejudiced sources" - when evildoers' deceits prevail, when the silence allows the evildoers to carry on unnoticed and unhindered. History, however, never duplicates itself exactly.

There is no major military or ideological confrontation in the world now. While the Allies did not have their focus on saving the Holocaust victims, at least they were fighting the Nazis and determined to win the war. We do not have that excuse now. On the contrary, we are apparently determined to win the market in China.

Technology is far more advanced now than it was in WWII, and we do not even need to be at Auschwitz or Buchenwald to know what is going on there. If 6,000 people have been taken in to Sujiatun and none has come out, how hard is it to see from surveillance satellites the suspicious traffic going in and out to figure out that it is a death camp?

There are now many international human rights laws that were not available before the Nuremberg trials, and there are now many surveillance and protection mechanisms implemented by the United Nations. How hard is it to demand an international investigation into the serious claim of the death camp's existence? What were those international human rights laws established for?

We do not always ignore incomplete or unsubstantiated information from China, however. When Dr. Jiang Yanyong disclosed the Chinese regime's deadly lies about the SARS epidemic, the retired doctor's letter to the media contained only what he had heard from his colleagues. Did the world hesitate for a second because the information was "incomplete" or "unsubstantiated"? Why didn't the information's incompleteness prevent decisive action by the international community? In fact, his letter was sent only to Chinese media, but Western media got hold of it and publicized it. Why does the world react so differently to the SARS news and the Sujiatun news, both of life-and-death importance? Isn't it because Sujiatun is about other people's lives?

If that is not enough to make us look at the selfish side of our humanity, consider this: if Sujiatun happened anywhere else other than China, whether in democratic countries or in North Korea, Sudan, or Cuba, it would have caused major outcries. Only the human greed for economic gains from China has kept the Sujiatun death camp from being an international issue.

"The wrongs which we seek to condemn and punish have been so calculated, so malignant, and so devastating, that civilization cannot tolerate their being ignored, because it cannot survive their being repeated." Justice Jackson knew the legacy that the Nuremberg trials would leave behind when he drafted his opening speech. If he have lived to see the post-Nuremberg wrongs, he might have been more introspective and lead a trial on human conscience and how it could allow the wrongs to continue to happen.

More information on this place:

The National Traditional Chinese Medicine Thrombus Treatment Center in Shenyang City. According to a former nurse who worked there, the Sujiatun deathcamp is in an underground complex connected to this hospital.

The furnace unit on the southwest side of the hospital. There are two doors leading to the
underground complex of the Sujiatun death camp.


According to the witnesses, the remains of Falun Gong practitioners are incinerated here after their organs are extracted.





Mr. Zuo Zhigang, a 33-year-old, worked at a computer company in Shijiazhuang, Hebei Province. On May 30, 2001, the Shijiazhuang City police and the "610 Office" arrested him. They beat him to death on the same day at the Qiaoxi District Police Station. His corpse was covered with scars. One of his ears was dark purple and there were two large square shaped holes on the back of his torso. There was a mark on his neck showing that a string had been pulled tightly around it.


Mr. Ren Pengwu from Harbin City, Heilongjiang Province. On February 16, 2001, he was arrested by the Hulan County police and thereafter detained in the Hulan County Second Detention Center. Before dawn on February 21, he was killed and all internal organs, from pharynx and larynx to penis, were removed. The authorities hastily cremated his remains afterwards.


At around 3:00 p.m. on May 14, 2002, two policemen arrested Ms. Wang Yunjie because she practiced Falun Gong. In December 2002, after depriving her of sleep for many days, the police tore her shirt open and shocked her breasts with two electric batons for 30 minutes. Then they forced her to stand up for the whole night. They tore some bed sheets, tied her legs in a painful cross-legged position, handcuffed her arms behind her back, and tied her upper body down to her legs and made her looked like a ball. Then they suspended her in the air by the handcuffs for seven hours. The pain was excruciating. Afterward Ms. Wang could no longer straighten her back and could not sit straight. The electric shocks disfigured her breasts and she eventually developed serious infections. When the camp realized she was dying, they ordered her family to pay 2000 Yuan for her release.
Ms. Wang Xia was sentenced to seven years in a forced labor camp. She went on a hunger strike to protest the torture. As a result, the guards force-fed her, leaving the tubes in her esophagus for 7 to 14 days at a time. They tied her to a bed so she could not move, injected her with unknown drugs, and hung her up to beat her. . In July 2004, after so much torture, she weighed only 45 pounds, lapsed in and out of consciousness, showed signs of severe mental disorder, and had lost her memory. She was then released from the camp. Because her case was exposed on overseas websites, she "disappeared" in September 2005.

Mr. Wang Bin, was arrested for appealing to the government was detained at Dongfeng Xinchun Labor Camp. On the night of September 27, 2000, the guards at the labor camp told five prisoners they would receive reduced sentences if they beat him hard enough and they would be punished if they did not. The beating broke Mr. Wang's neck and major blood vessels, his tonsils were injured, his lymph nodes were crushed and several bones were fractured. There were bruises all over his body. He lost consciousness right on the scene. When he was finally taken to Daqing People's Hospital, it was too late to save him. On the night of October 4, 2000, Mr. Wang passed away at age 47. However, two of hospital's doctors took out his hearts and brain. The photo shows that his body had been cut open.

As i take courses in International Business, economic, and world politics we seldom talk about the dark side of governments and their tactics. Lately, the world has been carried away by the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, that we seem to have selectively focused out of events that are happening else where. China should not be an exception, and should not be treated as one either.

We seemed to have erased the rest of the world from our consciousness. And the people highlighted here, are real people too.

The next time I recommend China to my friends, I will also mention Sujiatun.

A link to this article can be found at http://www.consciencefoundation.org/ Many thanks to the Falun Gong Human Rights Working Group (http://www.falunhr.org/) brining this article to the worlds attention.

Please visit their websites for more information

15 comments:

mythsn_legends said...

As I read the article, I thought to myself...."My God.....MY GOD.....history is subtly repeating itself and no one cares...."
WHAT is the world doing to STOP THIS atrocity? WHY is the world blatantly ignoring this issue?
China is frequently known for it's violations of human rights but now I know how far they can go.....
this leads me to pose a few question...how much trust can we place in our government??? what goes on behind the scene? If China's gov is doing atrocious things like this.....what is OUR gov doing???
I am glad you are higlighting issues like this on your blog.....really widens my view of 'the world'

astrorat said...

Dear mythsn_legends,

The reaction to this piece of information is frightening. While the realities of your own country may come to awareness, lets not forget Sujiatun. While its common knowledge that the current Chinese government has little regard to the sprit of human rights, not a lot of us know the extent of such violations. Its events like these that highlight to the world, that behind long rhetoric articles are people being tortured and killed.

Astrorat

Dr. Deborah Serani said...

I wholeheartedly agree with you that one cannot separate social issues and psychology. In fact, I think that you cannot look at one WITHOUT the other. It is astonishing what continues to go on despite the evolution of humankind.

Breaks my heart.

~Deb

astrorat said...

Dear Dr. D,

i sometimes wonder if a segment of humans are 'devolving'. It truly is sad how people are treated in various parts of the world.

bobby fletcher said...

China is not as bad as everyone make it out to be. I've been there, have you?

Here is more news that has since aired on the authenticity of the allegation:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,18669046%255E7583,00.html

"Initial investigations by researchers for a US congressional committee have identified the site at Sujiatun as a hospital, where it is suspected organ harvesting occurs but on nowhere near the scale claimed"

Now, if there is no concentration camp, rather isolated instances of abuse and irregularity contrary to Chinese law, then there exists a very different reality than what's alleged.

The congressional committee on International relations, Asia Pacific subcommittee has been contacted. However they seem to be unwilling to help. It may be our government's wish to remain ambiguous on this issue.

My opinion is if this allegation is false, we need to make that clear, so we in the West can not be accused of allowing our ambiguity to be exploited for some nefarious, well-timed, political indictment.

Looks like efforts may be needed to make FOIA request to congressional committee. Private citizens without substantial resource and time will likely meet a lost cause.

There are also many questionable issues surround this allegation:

- Many details about the alleged camp site appears to be lifted from the hospital website's About page, including the alleged number of victims, 6000, which is part of the admission statistics published by the hospital in 2005 (2nd paragraph of About page).

http://world.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_load?lp=zt_en&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thrombusres-cn.net%2Fmyjs%2Fmyjs.htm

- Hong Kong newspaper TaKungPao investigated the allegations and came up empty:
1) Reporters visited the hospital; the only underground structure found is the septic tank:

http://world.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=zt_en&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.takungpao.com%2Fnews%2F06%2F03%2F31%2FZM-545907.htm

2) Reporters contacted Lanzhou University, but alleged arrested students' names do not exists in student registry:

http://world.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=zt_en&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.takungpao.com%2Fnews%2F06%2F03%2F27%2FZM-543827.htm

- It appears the surprise discovery of an underground tunnel built by japanese army during 1905-1920 period, back in August 2005 could be the inspiration for this twist of fact.

The tunnel was sealed up by the Japanese then and unknown until it was discovered by a photographer from the 918 WWII museum working in Sujiatun.

http://news.sohu.com/20050812/n226651351.shtml

When it was discovered in 2005 the tunnel was half *under water*, above link has a picture of it so everyone can get a good idea how this tunnel can, before its discovery in 2001, hold 6000 people, plus an army of skilled transplant surgeons, nurses, 500-700 jail guards - equipment, rations, and supplies for nearly 10,000 people - all of them eating drinking defecating on top of each other.

And the amazing thing is Sujiatun is a populated close suburb of Shenyang city, with over 150 foreign company and 50-60 foreign family too - "nobody goes in and out of the concentration camp"?

More info about the tunnel, including dimension of the facility:

http://www.u-web.cn/PersonalPCSite/complex562_detail.jsp?itemid=175862&contenttype=TextImage&isindex=0&indexchannelid=-1

"after jumping down and passing two holes, we arrive at the entrance of the underground facility. The hallway is 2 meters long and only wide enough for one person. After the hallway is a wider 8 square meter area. After 5 meters we arrrive at 3 meter wide, 2 meter tall underground structure. Cement covers the walls, it's flooded with water 1 meter deep. the structure is about 4 meter under ground, with some of the walls crumbling.

According to Wang TsenJie who discovered it, from above ground estimation it is 2000 meter long [with widest point @ 3 meter], half completely flooded. Water is clear with fish that have no eyes. Some ammunition and human remains have been found [human remain from WWII.]"

(get help from http://world.altavista.com if you can't read Chinese. It ain't a billion people's fault.)

(Just for comparison Guantanamo Bay is a huge base, and it only holds 700 detainees.)

astrorat said...

Dear Sunday service in Xinzheng,

I agree with you and reconfirm that China is not bad at all. However, this niceness is thanks to the wonderful hospitality of the Chinese people, whom I have gotten to know over the years. Even though I have not been to Beijing, i have have lived among Chinese people and their culture for a considerable period of time in other regions of the world. However, the debate should not be qualified by a persons presence (or the lack of it) in a country. You would agree that we don’t need to be in Iraq, Afghanistan, Rwanda, Cambodia, Burma, Acheh, Sri Lanka, Kosovo, etc etc to know that something is wrong. Similarly, the lack of information should not be an excuse for our denial of the possibility of an issue. Ignorance does not constitute bliss.

You quoted and said that the "Initial investigations by researchers for a US congressional committee have identified the site at Sujiatun as a hospital, where it is suspected organ harvesting occurs but on nowhere near the scale claimed", but should the world simply close one eye, just because the level of “abuse” does not match the scale claimed? Tell me dear friend, how much of such abuse of human rights should take place, for the world to call it abuse? 1 person? 10 people? 15 people? 100 people? 1000 people? 6000 people? What’s that magic number, on which the world will stop and take note?

You also said, “The congressional committee on International relations, Asia Pacific subcommittee has been contacted. However they seem to be unwilling to help. It may be our government's wish to remain ambiguous on this issue.” I cant imagine why the Chinese government needs to stay “ambiguous about anything, if it has nothing to hide to the rest of the world? If the Chinese administration is as good as it is suggested, why cant it come clean?

Further, I agree with your suggestion that “efforts may be needed to make FOIA request to congressional committee.” I reckon that FOIA is some government agency? (I don’t know). But, there’s more we can do. We need to start asking our governments why the United Nations is not addressing the issue? Why is it that the major powers of the world who were once worried about the people of Iraq being liberated, pay a little more attention to the people in China?

You are right, “private citizens without substantial resource and time will likely meet a lost cause”, but that should not be a reason why private citizens should stop brining these issues to human consciousness. Remember, it is us, the private citizens who elect “non-private” officials to power. It is us, who pay the price. And it is the private citizens of Sujiatun who we must be concerned about. And for these reasons, the private citizens of the world must act.

I agree with you, that there is concern for the accuracy of the specific details of the number of victims in the hospital. Perhaps the number was lifted from its website, perhaps not. But does that really matter? Is it not more important to know that abuse is taking place? And like I said above, how much of abuse should occur before we respond?

I think that its time that independent research supported by the United Nations investigate the “real” issues and inform the rest of the world about the truth. But, as of now, any presumption other wise runs the risk of violating the rights of the private citizens of Sujiatun.

:) Astrorat

Dr. Deborah Serani said...

Thinking about your comment on "devolving".

I think you are onto something there. You get the credit for that term and usage.

~Deb

bobby fletcher said...

Astrorat, I was talking about the US government's Congressional subcommittee; I'm an American.

And if you are an American, you should know what Freedom Of Information Act (FOIA) request is. If you don't shame on you.

I find your "so what if Epoch Times lied" attitude troubleing.

I'm sure it's emotionally satisfying - but have you thought about what the Chinese might learn from us, if we can not be precise, about what we feel is wrong.

That's the reason I question these well-timed political accusations. Epoch always promote these nefarious indictments when Chinese leaders visit, or China is about to hold international event (both are the case) even if they have to exaggerate, embelish, lie.

It makes the message less than genuine, who will take it seriousely?

astrorat said...

Dear Dr. D,

:) my own "term" :D yay!

Dear sunday service in xinzheng,

Shame on me i guess! But unfortunately to you (perhaps fortunately to me), the world extends beyond America and you cant expect non Americans to know what FOIA is. I wonder if the American would know either. You seem to assume that the rest of the world is governed by the US constitution. Unfortunately, this is not true. Unlike in the US, freedom for information is NOT a luxury that is available in China, or in most other parts of the world. So forgive me for i am not American, nor do i come from a country where information is freely available.

I wonder if you have truly lived in most parts of Asia, or if your visit to China involved a tourist snapshot vacation.

No where in my writing did i say "so what if Epoch Times lied", nor did i take that attitude. Don’t you think that we have the responsibility of investigating a murder, even though there’s no body, and the only reported evidence if from the 'blood stains' that have been reported?

if you had read what i wrote, then you will realise that i called for an impartial investigation of the said hospital by the United nation (the organization that seems more interested in supporting the vito states interests).

are you suggesting that we don’t take the message seriously, because it seems less genuine? if you look back at Rwanda, that’s what happened didn’t it? the world slept, while "experts" debated about the definition of genocide. Don’t you think that the arm chair approach of debating on the fate of a community without calling for an international investigation absurd?

:)Astrorat

bobby fletcher said...

I found out that we have a consulate near Sujiatun in Shenyang. So I called them and asked them about this allegation.

They categorically deny it. If you don't believe me you can call them yourselves.

Be sure to let them know you are an US citizen, and you wish to speak to an American officer in US Citizen's Services. Here's their phone number:

(86-24) 2322-1198

Foreign consulates have the responsibility to provide services to its citizens, including economic, cultural, local news and events, provide advice on traveling.

They reassured me there is no concentration camp in Sujiatun, and it would be safe for US citizens to travel to that part of China.

I would recommend that you call them; they will give you a satisfactory answer.

Steph said...

Hmm so much heat in this discussion...

So where is this issue going to? Is it an issue of proving who's right or wrong? An issue of who knows better? An issue of defending ourselves because of our ego?

OR

is this an issue of REACHING those who are crying for our attention and pleading for our help?

astrorat said...

Dear Sunday service in Xinzheng,

1.The CIA found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and categorically denied any thing else but weapons of mass destruction. As it turned out, that was a fire truck. This incident was later categorically accepted by Ex secretary general, Mr. Colin Powell of America. My point: The US “intelligence” have been proven to be wrong. Are you telling the world that your consulate has got the information right this time?

2.Stop assuming the elitist attitude that anything American is right. Just cause the consulate says so, it does not clear anything. The US consulate any where in the world is not the body designated to conduct research on behalf of the world. Ultimately, the US consulate near Sujiatun will be more concerned of protecting American national security by not saying anything controversial. They will not attempt not to piss-off China and loose billions of dollars worth of business. Hence calling them, does NOT lead you to anything but a twisted version of reality, that is built to suit American offshore policy. Hence, don’t claim that the US consulate to be the highest source of information.

3.Stop assuming that I am American. I am NOT. And I don’t intend to be either. Neither do I reside in the US.

4.Which part of INTERNATIONAL responsibility don’t you understand? The American consulate was NOT (nor will be) appointed by the UNITED NATIONS to assimilate information about human rights abuse.

5.Until an investigation is done by the United Nations AND ONLY the United Nations ALONE, private citizens should NOT stop assuming that torture and abuse of human rights is occurring in Sujiatun.

Astrorat

astrorat said...

Dear steph,

I totally agree with you. The issue should not be left to idle because at the core of this, human lives are at stake. As psychologists, take an oath to protect the wellbeing of humanity. Our primary goal and responsibility should be towards beneficence and nonmaleficence.

Lets get more voices to say out loud and demand that Sujiatun be investigated immediately by the United Nations. Thank you for your comment.

Astrorat

Bob Waters said...

A couple of things.

It should be said first of all that there are three major differences between Iraq and Sujiatun.

There was never any doubt, first, that Saddam had that WMD at one time, and in fact the only brief Hans Blix and company ever had from the UN was to supervise their destruction- not, in Mr. Bush's words, "to conduct a scavenger hunt in a country the size of California." This never happened. By terms of seventeen UN Security Council resolutions, Saddam was not in compliance. Neither did he ever comply with the truce which ended the First Gulf War, and demanded the destruction of those WMD under UN supervision within ninety days. He even kicked the UN inspectors out of the country for an extended period. WMD (although in relatively small numbers) have indeed been found in Iraq by coalition forces, and satellite surveillence documented huge convoys of trucks moving into Syria and Lebanon in the days preceeding the invasion. MOSSAD has from the beginning maintained that those trucks, along with several of the unprecedented number of cargo planes that made the same journey, contained WMD.

Finally, the inability of the UN itself to take decisive action during seventeen years of Saddam's defiance illustrates a serious problem. Were the United Nations actually able to act in the face of crises like Saddam's defiance, the Rwanda genocide, or the Kosovo business, it would be easier to take it more seriously as a potential resort in matters such as the Sujiatun revelations. Nor does its character as an international body in any real sense render it a "higher authority" than any national government. The surrender of sovereignty was no part of the deal when the UN was founded.'

Having said that, I, too, would welcome a UN investigation of the Sujiatun business, even though the latest from China is that the inmates of the camp are being rapidly disbursed to other, smaller, and better-hidden ones- and even though, again, there is no reason to believe that the hapless and ineffectual organization called the United Nations would either take decisive steps to
ensure an effectual investigation or do anything about it even if the Sujiatun allegations were proven.

Several things need to be said of Sunday's posts. First, Sunday himself is a resident of the United States,but seems to follow the Chinese Communist Party line religiously on practically everything. He even denies that a massacre took place at Tiananmen Square.

Secondly, no diplomatic service in any country would dare give even the slightest creedence to a charge like this without ironclad proof. Any counsul who said anytning other than what Sunday relates the American counsul said could be expected to be declared persona non grata and deported post haste, and any country which officially gave creedence to such charges could expect severe diplomatic consequences.

The accusations have been made by those who claim to be eye witnesses. Moreover, the Chinese regime has murdered more people than any other in recorded history, some seventy seven million. Sunday unthoughtfully shows his hand when he accuses the United States, largely on the basis of the Indian genocide (a horrible crime, but one which took place over a century ago and involved only a tiny fraction of those seventy seven million victims of Beijing's consistently murderous
habits) of being the most blood-soaked in history. Sunday lives in Washington State, but his allegience is clearly to Beijing- an allegience as unreasoning and unthoughtful as that of the most reactionary "America, Right or Wrong" partisan in the States.

Sunday has apparently made it a major project to visit every blog which mentions Sujiatun and repeat- sometimes word for word- the same lame arguments. He gets his name, BTW, from a deceitful attempt to portray himself by implication as an American Christian (he is apparently an American citizen, but not a Christian)
giving evidence that there is religious freedom in the persecutory atmosphere of Communist China on the basis of his experience with a state-sponsored congregation in the city to which his nickname alludes. What Sunday says needs to be taken with about a carload of salt; he simply has no credibility.

One more point: those "preliminary findings" by the congressinal committee were very preliminary indeed. Its investigation continues.

At any rate, I agree that the UN needs to investigate the Sujiatun affair. Sadly, I doubt that it has the resolve to investigate anything effectually, or to take effectual action in the presence of clear evidence.

I cite Saddam Hussein's WMD, Rwanda, and Kosovo as evidence.

Steph said...

two thumbs up tp bob waters!!!:)